VENOM8888's material provokes a definite reaction out of the listener, with over a dozen albums on various labels in the underground digital hardcore/industrial scene - His frenzied and deeply political noise-core artwork, disturbs, not on a superficial level of individual images or samples, but moreso because his musical terrorism is a direct reflection of the decay of modern society.  We're glad to have released 2 full length albums and an EP from VENOM8888 and present this comprehensive interview as we prepare to release "VxxKxx", his last album under this moniker and coincidentally (?) this will see release as DTRASH#88.

DTRASH: When we first received your first demo, you put across the idea like that this type of music would be something that you'd pick up in some shop in a big city, some roughly labeled cassette that always fucked with you - Was there any kind of inspiration from actual stuff you'd picked up back in the day that this was modeled after? Was there anything similar that you picked up back in the day and found the same type of reaction that you are looking for people to find in your stuff?

VK: My original idea was inspired by visiting NYC. Back in the day ( and I am told you can still find them) you could find great underground shit on cassette sold right on the street, illegally, for a few bucks. Home made, unprofessional in every way..sound quality, no art or photocopied art, tape hiss...counter to what the 'music industry' wants you to think of when you buy their product in the store for top dollar. Music brought to the people by the people, without the big corporate mind fuck.

As far as my inspiration from other kinds of music..primarily from making music in bands back in the day...while in art school. Noise bands like DNA, Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, Swans (circa 1980), Mars, all of those No new York bands, hardcore bands like Black Flag, Circle jerks, germs, Flipper, and experimental bands like James Chance and the Contortions, throbbing gristle, the John Lennon and Yoko Ono albums ("unfinished music No.1:two virgins", "unfinished Music No.2:Life with the Lions"), John Cale, the Kronos Quartet, John Cage, Deathprod, Nazi propaganda music from the 30's, early P.I.L., Experimental Audio Research, and of course classical music, to name just a few.

As far as the reaction I am going for..its about provoking the listener..into action or atleast into thought. All my work ultimately is about the human condition, and the mental games, manipulations, class wars and power trips of society that play directly into the human condition..environment..peer pressure, and the fine line between sanity and insanity as a result.

DTRASH: Aklass Records recently put out a release "The Venom8888 Yrs", a best of, if you will, on Venom8888's career - What do you as the artist think of the choices and do you think this sums up the Venom8888 experience? What do you see as the definitive, if not most important album?

VK: I picked all of the tracks myself..and went for the ones that are my personal favorites, which feature my own vocals...(except for the odd computer voice from time to time)..the definitive recording for me, which I think sums up what Venom8888 is all about was the release called 'the Balkan Tea Party'..hopefully we can get a re-issue of that on Dtrash in the future. It has everything that a growing boy needs, mad dictators, chaos, repetition (history repeating itself) and the most overt hidden in plain site musical theft I had done up to that time.

DTRASH: Many of your tracks deal exclusively with terrorism, resistance, anti-culture dissemination, but there is a heavy element of sexual tension by use of your sampling techniques from various movies - What role does sexuality play in the overall Venom8888 message? (IE. Porn phone ads over top of Nazi propaganda music on "Submission Axiom"?, "Eat My Pussy, Please") Is this for shock, is it a reflection of society's perversion, etc, etc? Venom8888's music is definitely not sexually motivated ala R&B/rapper shit music, versus more of a mock factor, like with other topics you brush upon?

VK: These things you mention are all about the human condition in the 21st century. They are all relevant to life today..pick up a paper..its all there..child molestation, hot young female high school teachers sleeping with their male students, the war on terror, which also is a war on our civil rights here in the US, Girls Gone Wild, sex in the grammar schools, meat culture, the all blurring line between the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys'..sexuality is power, like presidential power but on a smaller independent scale..the quest for power and its greed..call me now, only $19.99 a minute. this is who we are and have become. Its tragic, real, and uncompromising...and funny as fuck out of context.

DTRASH: Your material borders on 'being catchy' and 'being noisy' - there are parts which sound 'song like' and then many parts which are obviously not tailored for a 'song-like' experience - Is this a part of what makes Venom8888, Venom8888? Could you ever see your music tending towards conventional musical structures (IE. Songs with the same message, same composition style, but with a verse/chorus/verse approach, or is the style of your music in it's very essence opposed to this type of intention?)

VK: Well, I've gotten pretty damn close. As a matter of fact, thats what i try to avoid like the plague, that standard song style that everyone expects to hear...thats the bait and switch which is Venom8888. Fuck with their brain, give the people only a little of what they expect, then pull the rug out from under them. Security and panic. Comfort and irritation. Like the Skinner box (as in B. F. Skinner), manipulate and reward. False sense of being..you know, everything life is!

I play and tease with this 'song structure' because you can fool people into thinking about bigger issues when they 'think' they are being 'entertained'.. and rock and roll, today, is really all about entertainment. Thats why its no longer relevant. Once something has been turned into entertainment (i.e. used to sell cars in commercials, for movie soundtracks like in Jerry Bruckheimer films) its over.

But there still are alot of 'hanger-ons' who refuse to let rock and roll die like the dead horse it is..so I use that against them. Manipulate the manipulators, I say. As a musician, I stopped making 'rock and roll' years ago..but what brought me back into it (or rock and roll based music) was seeing Atari Teenage Riot open for Beck back in 1997-98...they were touring on their 'Burn Berlin Burn' recording. I thought it was hysterical. Here were these 4 people, all with mics, 'singing' and yelling over their own brand of pre-recorded karaoke music..I was so embarrassed for them! they looked like teenagers standing infront of the bedroom mirror singing along to one of their favorite records they were playing. Musically, I found Alec Empire to be a genius (still do), but watching them 'perform' was the stupidest thing I had ever seen at the time, coming from a 'band' actually playing ones own instruments background. I still think its a joke.

Watching rap artists rap over records played by a DJ on a platform is the best rip off joke of the 21st century. Musicianship is dead, long live the rip off artist! Appropriation and sampling is king, the end of originality or ones
self talent, the beginning of the celebration of the theft. It inspired me to get back into music making. The freedom..the manipulation of the listener, and the manipulation of the music industry..it blew my mind. Propaganda for the purpose of promoting ones own agenda/self through other peoples talent...we've come a long way baby!

DTRASH: You're experienced in producing material for various digital hardcore record labels - but you are also an accomplished gallery artist having done many public exhibitions. What are the benefits of the audio versus the visual medium and are you more inclined towards one or the other?

VK: My first band was called Leviathan (before anyone else heard of the word) back in 1982...and our first gig was at a gallery. We were an experimental noise band...and really, I only got into music making as a hobby. i never wanted to get anywhere with it (i.e. get successful, money and fame)..it was a great way to meet girls. And music is an immediate form of art as in people respond to music more openly than, say, a painting or a sculpture, because of popular music making its way into society...But ultimately I am and always have been a visual artist. Thats number one with me.

Everything else is secondary. For me, one influences the other. I have made paintings that influence the audio and vice versa. I have always used words in my art (along with poetry that I used to make..my minor in undergrad school) and those words would turn into a 'song'...and sometimes I would right lyrics that inspire a visual image...If I didnt make art, I would never have become a musician, simple as that.

DTRASH: More on that, there's always been the impression that had a hesitancy about producing audio output, versus other mediums, having to borrow gear in order to create the music, coming away from the music table to create other stuff and then come back to the table again to create another. Do you enjoy producing audio Venom8888 material and what is the compulsive impetus behind it if it is something you have mixed feelings about creating?

VK: This is true. I have been in conflict as far as music making is concerned. I believe that rock music (or IDM, DHC, emo, what ever the fuck you want to call it) is a young mans business...and I am an old fuck. Plus, I should be concentrating on my paintings instead of making recordings. Its the eternal conflict with me..one, though, which recently I have come to terms with and made a decision about (more on that later). I suffer from having too many ideas. So i do things like sell my gear to keep me from making music..but the ideas come, the urge, and i am bored after making a body of work (paintings) so i borrow a friend's gear and make an albums worth of material. That has been the pattern. But all patterns, like rules, are meant to be broken.

DTRASH: The "Balkan Tea Party" release on Sick Mode Records was one of your most unique releases, with over half of the songs on the release based upon the same set of lyrics repeated in different forms over different music - I don't think I've ever come across a release where an artist has done this? Was there any type of planning or intention behind this when you took on producing this record?

VK: My intention was the idea of the 'remix'. I just took it to the next logical step, which was create whole new songs (or new versions) based on the original one. I wrote one set of lyrics..which the album is modeled on, and from there, widened the landscape, so to speak. The album, of course, is based on and from the history and current Hague trial of the former Serbian president/dictator Slobodan Milosevic. Being half Serbian, I find the interest very close to home. Plus I believe in the theory of history repeating itself..perhaps because its the nature of man. Its in our genes, war, suffering, power mongering, oppression. Tyrants can be re-built! know your history.

DTRASH: Looking upon your back catalogue, you now have a whack! of releases on a number of different labels, atleast a dozen different V8888 related releases, that is a lot of audio terrorism out there for the masses - what are some of the releases that strike out to you as some of your favorite releases where you hit closest to the mark you were going for?

VK: Well..I look upon all my releases as one large, ever growing body of work. Recordings are supposed to blend into each other..inspire each other, at times titles of songs will then become its own new album worth of material (as in the 'Level8888' recording, there is a track called 'Survive!'. Then later on down the road, I released a recording on Invasion Wreckchords called 'Survive!' taking that song and expanding on it). Thats the method to my madness. One thing does not really END and a new thing BEGINS or replaces it..its about one continuous body of work or ever growing portrait or viewpoint on the human condition. And, like my paintings, I don't think its right to choose which of my 'children'(recordings,..paintings) are my favorite... BUT having said that..I think this new recording thats coming out on DTRASH called "Venom8888/VXXKXX" is my personal favorite, maybe because its the newest one..as well as I get to do things on it that are more, lets say, made for ME and not the listener or fan, or perhaps because its the last of its kind that I am ever going to produce.

DTRASH: You've created a number of releases specifically for D-TRASH Records, but also done great artwork for a number of D-TRASH artists' releases - how does this fit in with your overall vision for Venom8888? Would you ever produce artwork for music that you don't like or not affiliated with?

VK: I dont have an overall vision for Venom8888 as a thing or a person, or whatever. The idea of Venom8888 has taken on a life of its own on the internet, with fans, reviewers, etc etc and this is yet another thing I have been in conflict with, the 'persona' of Venom8888 ( I am such a conflicted artist. hehe). Thats why I wanted to finally put an end to this whole Venom8888 idea or person. thats what this last recording is supposed to symbolize.. As far as the art I have done..it does not have anything to do with my music making. I only make art for people who I know and/or whose music I really like. Since I dont get paid to do it, I might as well have some scruples about it. Anyone can make art using the computer, but making good art is harder, and that edge comes from having a background in fine arts...thats what makes my cover art different than most.

DTRASH: As your material progressed, there was more of a tendency to sample from heavy metal related music than hip hop related music. What types of consideration go into what you sample and is there an intentional usage of hijacking one genre's music for your material or is it something you even think about before hand?

VK: I only steal from what I like at the time...When I used hip hop samples, it was about the 'beat'. Heavy metal, about the 'riff'. whatever gets my message across with impact, I use.

Much of Venom8888 material focuses on dictatorships/terroristic/fascistic structures - whether on Milosevic, Hitler, or other terroristic structures, IE "Level8888" EP's thank you to the Church of the Michigan Symbionese Kreator Militia, but there is also a strong element of resistance from terror that we as a populace are faced with ourselves and create our own terroristic art as a resistance, IE "Suicide Bomber", "Terrorism Begins At Home". Given that certain types of "terror" leads positively or negatively towards "revolution" how do you differentiate "good terror" versus "bad terror" in your message, or is there a difference? Is there a chance that people could misinterpret your music, or is that even a consideration if not an expectation?

VK: I think there is a good chance that my music or art will be misunderstood..for a host of reasons, however, the biggest reason would be lack of education/knowledge/street smarts..burying your head in the sand and not wanting to see problems that exist, being only concerned with entertainment, escapism...people concerned with that kind of life will more likely misunderstand what I am trying to convey. However, another source of misunderstanding would come from not having a sense of humor. Tthanking the "Church of the Michigan Symbionese Kreator Militia" is of course sarcasm and absurdity. I threw together 5 different names of extremist groups (some pro God, some radical, etc) and created my own..no doubt thats what the future will hold...what came before, but worse and out of context. History repeating itself but worse. Again, funny as hell out of context. Only through laughter can one make it through hell.

As far as 'bad terror' and good terror'..terror is terror. our military uses terror tactics like psychological operations to 'fool' the enemy to give up..and just look at Abu graib. Are we the good guys or the bad guys? or are we all the same but with different agendas?

DTRASH: Your stuff for all purposes is a variant of the noisecore genre - although more diverse, unique and generally relevant than a lot of the dime-a-dozen stuff released as "Noise". Do you see your music as noise and what are your thoughts about producing music that is for all purposes part of a noise-related subgenre?

VK: I love noise..I think its a truer experience than other forms of popular music. You dont always hear a guitar when you walk down the street, but I will bet you will hear a racket of noise! Ambient being closer to a real experience..the hum of appliances, muffled far away voices, etc. I think thats why I always loved the noise genre. I am an extreme realist who supports the theatre of the absurd! But in the end, 'genre's are terms used to catagorize music and make it into a consumer object. I make music instinctively and really dont second guess myself.

DTRASH: For as much as your music is anti-societal and anti-civilization, how much are you a part of the day to day machinery of this society that you attack in your artwork and is that part of the reason and the drive to create the Venom8888 material? I know many D-Trashers actually have 9-5 jobs and live in populated metropolis' where they are bombarded with messages praising most of the stuff that they attack in their messages? I know me personally in my Schizoid project - I am up to my eyeballs daily in the type of things that I hate of society and that is part of the motivation to create my material...

VK: I think that that is a big part of my message, that there is no escape from the machinery of this society. We are all here, up to our asses in it everyday..if you are to survive, then there is no escape...but I do think that there is more to survival..there is participation, action, re-action..playing an active part..support the things you believe in, and stand up and be counted when you do not support something. Personally, I have worked many jobs..very few I liked, most I have hated..from being a Teacher's Assistant in undergrad and grad school, to being a driver turned store manager in an art supply store, to working shitty retail, to working a factory job, to working a video store.. But at the end of the day, for me, all those 9 to 5's are just that: day gigs to keep me in paint and canvas. They dont count on a personal level..I do not take stock in the day job I do, nor do I define myself by them. I am an artist, always will be, and we are used to having to shovel shit, deep to our eyeballs, just to survive.

DTRASH: How much does the 'terror' obsessed culture of the West and specifically the United States where you come from have an effect on the art you create? Do you think Venom8888 could be Venom8888 if you came from another country?

VK: I think I could have come from another country and do what I did...only for that terrorism is not an exclusive American pastime. Now..the uber-consumerism, the meat culture, the greed level, all these things I spoke about earlier, They are as American as apple pie...not that other countries dont have aspects like these, however, not at the same intensity as the States do.

DTRASH: For that matter - do you see your material as music or art? Given that you are an artist, is what you create 'Music' or 'art'? There are arguments for it either way, regardless of how you enjoy Venom8888 material.

VK: I think a better question is "Is what you do Art or Entertainment?". Take a tree, if you will, that tree represents ART. Each branch of the tree is a different art form....Music, Film, Painting, Sculpture, etc. All of these 'branches' are all forms of art. Because the majority of what I have done in audio is beat based, or riff based, and uses lyrics with an intent to convey a message, then I have to say that my kind of music is art. There is a huge difference between Brittney Spears and Aphex twin! And I would claim that Aphex Twin is an artist and Brittney Spears is a creation in a corporate studio for the sole purpose to entertain..based on the fact that Aphex Twin makes you 'Think' and Brittney Spears does not would be the definition of Art vs Entertainment. One is for personal growth and a different way to view the world, the other is escapist slop.

DTRASH: Your upcoming release on D-TRASH Records is being billed as the "last Venom8888" release - is this really the end?

VK: Its is definitely the Last Venom8888 recording. period. I I plan on occupying the majority of my time in making my art, promoting it to galleries in the US and Europe... That said, I will also release audio in the future on DTRASH's sub-label called 'Contra Recordings' under my real name (if not sometimes also as 'V>K') I am interested in really pushing the envelope in my audio and do things that are not 'expected or predictable'..thats the idea behind me dropping the Venom name...dropping all the preconceived notions behind what my audio has to sound like, to live up to this imaginary persona..this way, I am only a slave to myself, which makes things alot easier for me. Also I got a bit tired of explaining to people that I make paintings under my real name, but I also make music under this other name..it all started to make me feel a bit schizophrenic..I wanted to simplify my life so I can just concentrate on being as creative as I want to be and that everything I do is connected..the visual art, the audio, everything. My future recordings will be more obscure and will bind itself whole hardily into the Theatre of the Absurd. Also I really want to live up to my widely used audio statement of being a 'freakus maximus, tunnel visionary, audio/visual sketchbook mutant".

I am excited to be releasing on Contra Recordings because I have had a very good relationship with Ian R. ever since I have released my music in the beginning on DTRASH..hes a true subversive artist without any inclination as to wanting commercial success..the only important factor being that the releases are trueas a non-entertainment, thought provoking art form...and that specks volumes to me. I will no doubt continue to release material on sickmode.net and hopefully on D-TRASH as well.

I hope everyone likes the new upcoming Venom8888 recording and if you thought my past recordings were strange, you aint seen nothing yet as far as my future audio goes, the gloves are coming off!

Vlado Ketch 2K6. (http://Vloda.com)

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